SSTF-1 Fluid
 

Disclaimer:
Use the products mentioned in this thread at your own risk. The use of these products will void your factory warranty.
These fluids have been proven to work, but some may not wish to risk their factory warranty.

Diaqueen SSTF-1 is sold by Mitsu dealers in the US at a cost of around $250.

Castrol BOT-341 & Castrol Transmax Dual, is sold by Mitsu dealers in Europe for around $120.
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1325021693

BOT-341 is only available in Europe and is almost impossible to find unless you're a dealer there.

"amir008" on the other forum did some research and found that Ravenol makes BOT-341 & Transmax Dual for Castrol in Germany and they state on their site that the SSTF-1 fluid is the same fluid that Ford, Chrysler and Volvo use in their DCT's.
Link 1
Link 2

Bryan has stated a billion times on every forum but everyone seems to overlook:
Pentosin makes OEM fluid for Audi/Volkswagen DSG's (TT, A3, Jetta, GTI, R32), Porsche's PDK (911, Carrera S, Carrera 4S; Boxster S, Cayman S) and BMW's DCT (M3/135i).
You can use Pentosin FFL-2 (Audi/VW DSG) as an OEM replacement and FFL-3 (Porsche PDK) and FFL-4 (BMW M3 DCT) in SST's that get beat on more (Track/Auto Cross/Strip).

You can get this stuff for about half of what SSTF-1 costs; and GTR owners have been using FFL-4 for quite a while and the general consensus is that the tranny shifts smoother and isn't as chattery.

Remember, you will need to order at least 7-8 bottles.
This is sold by the liter.

You can order FFL-2 from here:
US Customers: Pentosin FFL-2 US Customers
Canadian Customers: Pentosin FFL-2 Canadian Customers

You can order Pentosin FFL-3 from here:
Pentosin FFL-3

You can order FFL-4 from here:
Pentosin FFL-4

It's a little more expensive but you can also go to your local VW, Audi, Volvo, Porsche or BMW dealership for the respective fluids if you don't want to wait for shipping.

A BIG thank you to Eric (NFSLancerRA) for adding tons of extra info to this thread.

Key Points

• Pentosin makes FFL-2, FFL-3 and FFL-4.
• Most automakers and legitimate mechanics use Pentosin fluids and usually just relabel them.
• FFL-2 and FFL-3 have been proven to be safe to use in the TC-SST.
• FFL-2, SSP Pro Gold*, and Audi/VW DSG fluid are the exact same thing.
• FFL-3 is the same as Porsche's PDK fluid.
• FFL-4 is the same as BMW's DCT fluid.
• You need to buy a MINIMUM of 7 liters of fluid.
• The car will shift smoother, especially on cold starts; and if tuned properly, it should be able to handle more power.

Let me know if there is anything else I should add to the list.

*NFSLancerRA Disclaimer: I do not have inside knowledge of the parts listed on the SSP website. All claims made were based off of inferences (such as color and viscosity similarities).

Very interesting... I wonder if it will work perfectly with our SST's compared to the stuff we get from the dealership.

Definitely let us know how it goes, maybe Bryan can chime in on this.

Any solution to being bent over a barrel and taking it would be a great help to the cost of running the car.

$tealerships here in Canada charge 2x the US price for everything.

Great info Kyle. I am willing to test it out at the next fluid change. :cool:

In for results! I highly doubt there will be any negative effects... SSP's gold and red fluid is made for mitsubishis, VW's and GTR's I think.. I already had plans of ordering FFL-2, Any reason you went with FFL-3 instead?

EDIT (February 9th, 2012): I returned the FFL-3 and I'm getting FFL-2 instead.
More accurate info posted further in the thread.

Post #24
Post #28

Great Find very great find. I recently started having some problems with my sst and remembered the last time I had changed it was 10k ago and I do hard driving most of the time and got on the forums to see what the problem was and sent some emails. They told me if I am constantly driving I need to change my fluid more often than I usually do because the fluids get borwner and blacker the more I drive the car this way. Making my fluid only last me for a little while.. And now that your saying that these fluids are compatible shoot I am gonna save more money well not a lot but around 50 bucks buying this fluid if it works. So no more problems.

Also I wonder if having to inline filters would be overkill to have since I am adding two tranny coolers??? Sorry to be off topic but just curious to know. Anyone care to chime in on this?

We thank you for your hard work! Awesome job mate. :D

I wouldn't run 2 filters.
Especially if you've already added 2 extra coolers.
I don't think your pump could keep the fluid moving enough.

Stock pump is strong enough to handle the RRE dual sst coolers setup.

I run the stock filter setup so far. Hoping to upgrade to aluminum housing in the future. Maybe even use do some custom K&N filter or SSP for SSTF, still looking into it.

Having additional filter may need additional pressure/pump to keep the fluid going at the optimal flow rate. I have seen inline filter & inline pump that you bolt on. Dont know how well they would work. Keep us posted if you're going to be a guinea pig. :)

Well 2 coolers isn't an issue if one is in the stock location and the other is in the front grill or something.
But, what I'm getting out of it is he's "adding two tranny coolers" which will equal 3 total coolers, plus 2 filters. That sounds like no bueno.

Let us know what happens if you decide to do it ralli_kid!




Just a little update on my transmission fluid change thing.
I got the fluid and the tranny cooler.
Now I'm waiting on the lines for the cooler and the SSP filter and I'll be good to go! :cool:

just wondering, how many km or miles on your car that your changing your fluid?

I'm past due.
I have almost exactly 31,000 miles on the odometer! (49,890km)
That's with a track day, two turbos and lots of spirited mountain drives.
I guess I've been lucky so far.
My tranny doesn't slip or give me any trouble at all. (knock on wood :()

Hey def keep us updated...cuz I'm interested in knowing who the new fluid works...

Btw...where in socal u located at and who is gonna swap tbe flui for u?

I'll keep you all updated.
I'm in Murrieta. (Inland Empire)
But, I'll be doing the fluid myself.
I'll probably do a step by step with pictures.
I've done everything on my car myself from the turbo swap to the exhaust.
Hell, my brother and I made my exhaust from scratch! Haha :D

In for results :D

Updated OP! :)

Thanks for doing the leg work & bringing the info to the site, Kyle.
Much appreciated.

If I was rich I would give you an award of some sort. :D

Can't wait to see if FFL-2 is OK to use with this tranny. I need to do a fluid change baaaadddd but can't afford the OEM stuff...

although they are unable to chime in here, i know of someone who has been using FFL2 for some time now with no problems (in fact, they see no need to switch back to diaqueen)

ok so there are slight differences in the specifications.. its hard to tell what those differences mean in real world application. they do not deviate dramatically..

ffl2
http://www.pentosin.de/flexxtrader/d...20FFL-2_GB.pdf

diaqueen:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/4418CAB422531B298025795600647C43/$File/074926BOT%20341.pdf


i would summarize the differences but i am busy atm. someone else be a doll?:rolleyes:

This is great info. I find it also interesting the Ford Powershift transmission uses the exact same filter and housing as we do. I have found a few images of the ford one, and it is exact to ours. Again, only available in Europe and seems to cost around 40$. Seems fishy to me, exact same product, but 1/3 price. Might drop by Ford dealership and ask to see their filters for their powershift cars, pretty sure the new fiesta has it.

http://www.fordownersclubmalaysia.co...php?f=29&t=303

http://clubcj.net/viewtopic.php?t=8298
http://ford.sklep.pl/pl,product,3776...egow,ford.html

I was reading someone with SST problems who went to the dealer to get it fixed and they denied him warranty service because he did his transmission fluid change so now I'm a little scared to go along to do it myself. :confused:

I've looked over those articles before and the main differences in the specs between them really aren't that big, just viscosity and flash points really.

It's the platform they're designed for and what additives they use in each, that's whats important to understand.

Porche's PDK which is a joint manufacturing project by both Porsche and ZF has 2 different types of Dual Clutch Transmissions depending on the car. Some models use a single oil circuit and some use dual oil circuits, which makes a huge difference in fluids that need to be used.
DCT/DSG (Getrag/BorgWarner) transmissions, from what I know, only use single oil circuits for all of their current models.
From my understand, again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Each transmission has the same basic twin clutch concept, but the internals and how it's implemented are whats different.
How the gears and clutches are lubricated, how much force and pressure is put on each component and how the oil circuit(s) utilize and distribute the fluid(s) for lubrication and whether it requires 1 or 2 types of fluid, just transmission fluid or transmission fluid AND gear oil.

Each fluid is specifically designed to withstand that specific twin clutch's demands. Some fluids might not be able to withstand the demands of a certain twin clutch and burn up the clutches or gears, some might be overkill and slow down the flow of the fluid, some might be fine for the clutches but not for the gears or vice versa.

So it's very important to understand the mechanics of these transmissions.
I personally don't know the mechanics behind the PDK (FFL-3) and that's why I exchanged it for FFL-2 (DSG).
DCT's that use confirmed compatable fluid are made by either BorgWarner or Getrag, respectively.

Volkswagen Group had the origional rights to implement a dual clutch transmission in a commercial production car. Porsche made the first DCT's in-house for Porsche and Audi racing applications in the 80's.

Also, so there isn't any confusion.
DSG is just Volkswagen's name for their DCT, like Mitsubishi's is called TC-SST, Ford's is called PowerShift and BMW's is called MDCT.


Yeah, there are a few credible people in the MR/Ralliart group that have been using FFL-2 for a while, Bryan@GST for example.

Mitsubishi isn't fucking around with warranty claims on their cars. Especially a blown motor or a $10,000 transmission.

If you're filing a warranty claim on something big and expensive, you better have the papers to back up your maitenance. Mitsubishi wants everything documented, they want service receipts from a Mitsubishi dealer or a certified shop for: Oil changes, transmission fluid changes using OEM fluid, diff fluid changes, etc.

You can NOT do it yourself, Mitsubishi doesn't think we are qualified to do our own maintenance. No matter how much experience we have.
But their Mitsu techs that want to put CVT fluid in our SST's and conventiol oil in our motors are just fine.
But what do you expect from a company whose automotive branch is going under in North America.

My warranty has long been out the window so I'm not going to worry about Mitsubishi.

It's not a problem at all!
This stuff is just as important for us as it is for the MR owners.
It's totally worth the effort.

Decided on just ordering one and doing a single tranny cooler. I as well will be using ffl-2 since it seems like it will work with our tranny.

I wander if bryan@gst did a write-up on this?

Bryan never did an official write up on it.
Trust me, I've looked. haha
But he does mention it every once in a while on other forums.
No one seems to really listen to him though. :confused:

• Dec 27, 2011:

"The pentosin FFL-2 is also equivalent (and approved VW factory fill) oil as well. Amber color as well.

$18 / litre

There is also FFL-3 (made for Porsche PDK) and FFL-4 (made for BMW M series DCT) that would work well for heavy duty applications (track, etc)"

• Jan 6, 2012:

"It is FFL-2.

It literally just was delivered right now and I opened the box. It's full of FFL-2 bottles.

BTW, this hasn't been my first FFL-2 order. ;)"

• Jan 7, 2012:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by adog View Post
'How long were u planning on keeping this from us sir'

I posted it a couple times months ago. I guess nobody saw it or just ignored it."

• 01-24-2012:

"Seriously, how many times, in how many different threads, did I say that fluid was the same?

Nobody should ever listen to me.

Pentosin FFL-2 is the same, and cheaper. You can find it for $15/L "

Bryan does mention that you can use FFL-3 and FFL-4 in the SST.
I really just don't want to be the first to try it to see if it works! haha

I'm 19, make a little over California's minimum wage and I'm going through school. I really need a $10,000 transmission essploding all over my engine bay because I wanted to be the super guinea pig.

I feel comfortable trying FFL-2 because Bryan has used it multiple times without blowing up anything.

I'm just adding another experience and spreading the knowledge to reassure people that have any doubts on what Bryan has stated.
Plus I will also be making a step by step how to on changing the fluid and adding a second cooler with pics/nudez.

Then I'll post the results and my opinion on the fluid.
First, right after the change and then again later on down the road (track days included).

It really is important to hear opinions from multiple people and see their results compared to others.

I've found those same threads. There is way more information gathered here on the specific subject so far.

Thanks all!

I spent a couple of days searching the other forums for info but every thread seemed to go off topic too often and everyone just argued and posted false and random information without any sources.

My goal with this thread is to keep it organized and on topic.
I don't want this thread turning into a mess like the others.
I want people to be able to come back to this months and maybe years from now and still be able to understand and follow whats going on without having to worry about whether they read information that was true or not.

Thanx kyle...this is very important for all of us who is trying to save a dime or 2...def keep us posted cuz if all goes well I want to change it by 20000 miles......

Since this cherry has been popped, I will fill you in on what I know.

SSP Pro Gold IS FFL-2 (also known as Audi/VW DSG fluid). Buy a can and check the color, if you want to. I ran DSG fluid in my car for 10,000 miles, and the transmission ran perfectly. You CAN use Porsche DPK fluid. To my knowledge, that is FFL-3. FFL-4 should be BMW DSG fluid. I hope that that helps.

Some of the more elaborate clutch setups require different fluid to work properly, AFAIK.

So...I just want to make sure I understand this....

SSTF-1=SSP Gold=FFL 2...right?

I believe that SSTF-1 = FFL-1 (or the equivalent)

Either way, the cheapest way to get Pro Gold is to go to your local VW dealership. I know that it works. You can go higher, but the effect will be the same with a stock clutch setup (i.e. I wouldn't do it). The more SA on the clutches (which comes from adding more to the mix), the greater viscosity that is required. It has to do with heat transfer properties (or something along those lines). The patent and fluid dynamics pages are pretty vague. You have to go based on what they are used for. That should account for the difference in reported fluid characteristics. Believe me, I have done LOADS of research on this. It is the only way to go about working out the clutch upgrade that I have been working on. I have the P/N around here somewhere for the DSG fluid. I can buy it wholesale, because I have an account with VW of America. It costs around $90 for a full transmissions worth of fluid. I know that the higher grades of Pentosin fluid are for the DPK and M3 (current). It is a shame that people are just figuring this out now. This has been known since the birth of the Ralliart. A lot of good information doesn't seem to work its way to the forums.

I also wouldn't go higher on the fluid, because I believe that the exact number of optimal line pressure increase has been worked out (bearing the properties of FFL-2 in mind). With that and a nice re-tune, you SHOULD be able to run much higher HP and different clutch material configurations without issue.

so in another words...VW's tranny fluid will do just fine?
FFL2 = Pro Gold = VW's tranny fliuid?

Yes, VW imports FFL-2 as DSG fluid. They get a better deal than you could by trying to order direct. Buy DSG fluid.

Thanks for the info and input NFSLancer! :D

SSP would be really angry if they saw me posting what I am posting.

Disclaimer: I do not have inside knowledge of the parts listed on the SSP website. All claims made were based off of inferences (such as color and viscosity similarities). Use all products not meant for the TC-SST at your own risk, as the use of said fluids will void your factory warranty. Although these fluids have been proven to work, some may not wish to risk the deletion of factory warranty.

There. I am covered.